Why Wouldn’t You Use Seaside?

I picked up seaside for the first time 2 months ago and having played with the stuff I guess I’m intrigued by the question “why wouldn’t you use seaside?“.

Maybe it’s fundalmental to all conversion experiences to hold your new found beliefs as “patently obvious” but there must be reasons why people write web applications in other languages and frameworks rather than using seaside. A few (non technical) thoughts then on comparative religion and why people don’t write webapps in seaside.

  1. Inadequate Evangelism
    “They do not believe because they have not heard!” Maybe the nature of people who get a buzz from seaside are just not the type to market there ideas well. (Actually its an interesting point as to whether seasiders want to evangelise this stuff – maybe there is some kind of inherently gnostic view that this is for the special chosen ones and would be too powerful in the hands of the masses.)
  2. A Poor Image
    In a post modern world Image is everything. Thirty years ago we might have been able to argue the relative technical merits of different solutions and draw locigal conclusions. Not so now. Image is king. Java does the whole coffee (beans, jars etc) thing really well it’s image says “This is cool cafe culture programming”. Squeak Aubergines really don’t give the same message. Add to that the “child’s play” look and feel (and name) of Squeak and the secular Javarists will snort at our childish and unsophisticated beliefs.
  3. The Lack of a Sacred Text.
    I’m sat in bed with my copy of “Programming the Ruby Way” knowing that this is a mere shadow of what a “holy book” should look like but hey some Ruby evangelist gave it me on a street mission in our town and I guess I ought to read it.
  4. False Religion
    There are just so many “Annointed Languages” out there and “denominational frameworks”. And of course in a world of no absolutes they must all be true. Is it possible to declare that we have found “the truth that sets you free”. Does it make us arrogant “we know better than you” sorts or are we merely errant software developers who have accepted our failure to deliver, repented of it and found our coding salvation in Seaside. (For my part I feel a little like the prodigal son who eventually realised he was eating Java pig-swill and returned home)
  5. Old Time Religion
    Smalltalk – yes I remember that. Didn’t they used to believe that everything was created from Object and there were no types. Still no-one really believes that anymore do they! Didn’t that chap prove that all things began with a Java Applet that evolved into a Servlet then a JSP that got cross-bred with some HTML – And I’m sure there was something about an infinite number of monkey’s typing it. 😉
Explore posts in the same categories: Seaside, Smalltalk

8 Comments on “Why Wouldn’t You Use Seaside?”

  1. Idetrorce Says:

    very interesting, but I don’t agree with you

  2. Bruce Says:

    But what is life’s objective? A bland protocol for a non-adventurous lifespan maintaining a safety zone to not color outside the imaginative compulsive creation of structure?

  3. David G. Says:

    Well, as I look through Seaside, I don’t find a lot of sites showing it off (yet). I looked at the blogs of people associated with Seaside & Squeak, and they’re using blogger, wordpress, typepad etc…. where is Seaside being used? Where does it look good? I’m going to press ahead and see what it can do for me, but it would be nice to see something looking cool (not exactly your point #2 above, but related).

  4. Stephan Eggermont Says:

    Well, there are a lot of blogs using Pier (Lukas Renggli).

  5. jeo Says:

    The reason I’m not using it has nothing to do with any of that. It’s more that I’m having trouble finding a well-established way of working with relational databases from Seaside, and I’m kinda concerned about scalability.

    Give me a solid way of working with the database, and a way of putting a lot of users on the site without eating up all the RAM, and I’ll be thrilled to use Seaside.

    For some projects I might be willing to consider an object database of some sort – heck I’ve been playing with Google App Engine – but it has to be really solid, proven to scale, and I don’t want to get hit with big licensing fees when I start scaling up.

    For other projects, a relational database is absolutely required.

  6. Ed Says:

    Cause it’s even harder to find a cheap provider who can do Seaside than a cheap provider who can do Rails?

  7. Ed

    You could always try http://www.seasidehosting.st if you just want to try stuff out. Alternatively get yourself a VPS from one of the multitude of providers out there. You can download and install Squeak with Seaside on Linux or Windows. I use eApps and find them very good value.

    Have you taken a look at Ramon Leon’s blog “www.onsmalltalk.com”? He has lots of suff on both scalalbility and persistence. You might also want to take a look at http://www.glorp.org. You might also want to take a look at Gemstone it looks like you can support a large number of users before you need to licence it and when you do I think the costs are not too bad

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